The power of trust in driving change

REMI ERIKSEN

Welcome to Trust and transformations - leaders navigating change, a DNV podcast. I'm Rémi Eriksen, DNV’s group president and CEO.

In this series, myself and our business area CEOs sit down with other global leaders to talk about how they tackle transformations, build trust in their business and people, and what they think is coming next for their industry. Right now, they are experiencing a series of historically significant transformations, making trust more important than ever.

This episode is hosted by Ditlev Engel, CEO of Energy Systems at DNV.

DITLEV ENGEL

Hello and welcome to Trust and transformations - leaders navigating change. I'm Ditlev Engel, CEO of Energy Systems at DNV and I'm very pleased to welcome Doreen Harris, President and CEO of the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority, also known as NYSERDA, joining the podcast today.

NYSERDA works to promote energy efficiency, renewable energy and emission reductions across New York's economy and energy system. Its work is key to developing a cleaner, more reliable and affordable energy system for all New Yorkers.

Welcome to Trust and transformations - leaders navigating change, Doreen. It's a real pleasure to have you with us here today and before we get into our questions for today, I would like to start off by asking you, what has inspired you to pursue a career in clean energy?

DOREEN HARRIS

Well, it's fantastic to be here. Congratulations on the anniversary - that's quite a milestone to celebrate for the whole DNV team and for you in particular, so I'm thrilled to be here to speak with you today.

So yes, my career in clean energy, as with any career, has had a few twists and turns but certainly, I've always been someone very interested in technology, in innovation, and ultimately in solutions a that’s what I do today. It's very much what I think about NYSERDA's work, which is to bring solutions forward to improve the quality of lives across New York and beyond.

But certainly, my interest is rooted in the field of technology and certainly in engineering. I've always been someone who's interested in how things work. As a young child, my mother will attest, I enjoyed taking apart her sewing machine to see how it operated and sometimes I did put it back together but ultimately I have been nurtured in my career in the field of energy and interest in technology and engineering.

So I would say the exposure to science certainly allowed me to understand how it unlocks solutions and ultimately laid the foundation for the rest of my career. And I'd say, you know, it is the case, I'm only the second female to be the president of NYSERDA. I think that's important to just say that I have pursued a career that at least when I started that career, it was not a traditional career for women. My degree is in chemical engineering and certainly in the 90s, when I pursued that degree, I was probably one of only a handful of women out of many more men in that field.

I'm pleased today to say that it is not the case, that we see many, many more women represented in the field of engineering and in fact, one of my top priorities is to expand the presence of diverse representation in the field of clean energy writ large. So, ultimately my career has, it's led a path starting in the private sector, really traditional energy engineering work, and ultimately led me to the public sector almost 15 years ago when I joined NYSERDA to lead our large-scale renewables team.

And ultimately when I think about where I have come from and ultimately where I am today, having been the president and CEO of NYSERDA now for four years, it is reflective of that strong prioritization on bringing forward my technical foundation to benefit the lives of many.

And so where I sit today, it's an extraordinary opportunity to lead the transition here in New York State but ultimately to be part of that transition globally as I know the DNV team is as well.

DITLEV ENGEL

Thank you for that, Doreen. I can really hear that you are not just going to the office, you are running to the office every day, which brings me into NYSERDA and the role you play in so many ways on the global energy transition.

I'd like to know how does your organization view its responsibility in shaping this trajectory of clean energy both in your state and within your country and maybe also on a global scale?

DOREEN HARRIS

Well, as I mentioned, I've actually been at NYSERDA since 2010. It's been an extraordinary opportunity to really observe and now participate in that transition. NYSERDA is the state's clean energy agency, so this is our job. And you're right - this is what I run to work to do every single day.

New York has a very ambitious climate law that was signed into law in 2019 and ultimately, certainly under Governor Hochul’s leadership, my top priority is to execute on that law and we do ensure ultimately that the right market signals are being sent to industry in order to really scale up. So, when I started at NYSERDA in 2010, the state of New York might have procured one or two or three then onshore wind projects per year and now we are advancing technologies in every corner of our society.

It's ultimately an economy wide transition that we are looking at under our climate law and associated with it is a level of scale that is quite extraordinary. So, New York has really been placed in a leadership position in this transition, advancing many, many technologies, but again, technologies that are grid related technologies, but also buildings, transportation, waste, industry, all of the technologies necessary to decarbonize our full economy.

And so I would say NYSERDA itself, 50 years, we're about to celebrate our 50-year anniversary. It's not 160 years, but it is 50 and really where we sit today, we are really looking at the next generation of technologies that will be necessary to bring to commercial deployment in addition to the scaling of all of the technologies that we have to market now. And so that's our priority - it's to scale up the things we have, to bring the solutions forward that are on the edge of readiness, and ultimately to create a mature, I'd say, industry writ large to meet the level of ambition that is called upon us to achieve our clean energy transition here in the state and beyond.

DITLEV ENGEL

Very, very impressive and I know that you have also been part of advancing the Accelerated Renewable Energy Growth and Community Benefits Act.

Can you explain to our listeners about how this will improve the whole siting and construction of these large-scale renewable energy projects, both in environmental, responsible and cost-effective manner, and how you go about doing this?

DOREEN HARRIS

Certainly. So that very long term actually has an acronym that is associated with the fundamental point of siting and I would say this is a subsequent piece of legislation which followed our climate law and it's an issue that I think we very much need to grapple with globally, which is how does one advance this transition in an environmentally responsible and cost effective manner that reflects really the prioritization that communities place on their own way of living and working?

And so when we think about, I mentioned actually when you asked me the last question, we used to be deploying a couple of projects a year and now between distributed resources all the way up to offshore wind projects, we're deploying perhaps thousands of projects per year across our state. And so this bill specifically recognized the fact that to build out the grid, to build out the transmission, and ultimately to improve the ways in which these projects are sited and the timing of that siting of the projects was a huge necessity in order to get to the scale required by our climate law.

So it really started with generation. We had the Office of Renewable Energy Siting that was the outcropping of that bill and now more recently, we have the Rapid Act in New York State, which is focusing on transmission, both really focusing on standardizing the ways in which these projects are cited and permitted, so as to again, provide certainty of responsible development to the host communities, but also the scale necessary and the pace necessary to get from here to there.

It also put NYSERDA actually in the space of project developer. We have a responsibility to advance renewable energy projects on underutilized properties. And I'd say that's a really helpful place for a government entity to sit because we are learning every day what it means, right, to actually develop projects at the same time as procure projects. And the Build Ready program, as it's known, has allowed us to really advance projects that the private sector might not. So, yeah, it's all about addressing the related issues associated with this transition.

DITLEV ENGEL

One of the things that we work a lot with in DNV is how do we ensure the right trust and collaboration with all the people involved in the transition? And so when I close my eyes and think about New York and the state of New York and been there many times, you see it's a very active state. A lot of people coming in and out, extremely busy.

So I can imagine navigating this transition and also making sure that all stakeholders have the right trust in this very aggressive transformation you're doing. How do you cope with all that to really create the right trust with all the key stakeholders that you actually have?

DOREEN HARRIS

Well, I agree. Trust is the center of a successful transition - it's really the topic of change and certainly the question becomes how does society change? There is a psychological shift that needs to happen and ultimately that can only happen if trust is the foundation of that change. And so one thing that we recognize at NYSERDA is that it is the case that there are certain circumstances in which we are the optimal entity to establish that trust with the public. A great example of the ways in which I believe we had the job of establishing that trust was my role in co-chairing New York's Climate Action Council.

So we worked for many years with many, many, many stakeholders, estate agencies, and literally the public writ large to develop a scoping plan which was voted on by our Climate Action Council, which literally laid out the path to get from where we were to our Climate Act goals. That's a very strong role for a government entity to play and one that I'm very proud of achieving that in a manner that reflected the input of many, many individuals along the way.

But there's also circumstances in which government, i.e. NYSERDA or maybe me myself, may not be the best entity to establish that trust and an example of a way in which we are addressing that very reality is community-focused programs and initiatives that we have undertaken.

We established a couple of years ago 12 regional clean energy hubs across the state and these are literally intended to be in the communities that we serve. But it is not that NYSERDA is staffing those hubs. It is that community-based organizations from all regions of the state are working as a one-stop shop for access to these opportunities by the community members that they serve.

And so this is an example of recognizing that the community-based organizations are the best organizations in that instance to establish the trust, but also to convey the information that we would provide to help, right? To help with this transition. We also recognize that we don't know what we don't know and that I, you know, you've learned I'm an engineer, I'm a businessperson, I'm a government person, but what I know very true is that there are representation of historically marginalized communities that have lived experiences that I did not have.

And ultimately, we've formed an energy equity collaborative, which is a shared space. It's a shared space for collaboration between those that serve those communities, as well as ourselves to come together to say, “I need to build a program”, “I need to do the following”, “You bring your expertise and we will compensate you for that expertise to help us build this program in the best way we can to serve the communities that we seek.”

So ultimately, we're one of the first states to compensate these stakeholders for their expertise but it's reflective of the fact that really we need that trust and that shared space to be working together most effectively.

DITLEV ENGEL

So on that note, when you are making this very impressive transformation, can you give some examples of that this is also actually creating higher or better paying jobs in the state of New York compared to where you were before?

DOREEN HARRIS

Certainly. So one thing that we started a number of years ago is a longitudinal study. It's the Clean Energy Industry Report that we produce every year. And we do this because we need every year to have a marker to say what exactly is the status of this industry and how is this transition affecting New Yorkers from each side of our state, north, south, east, to west.

And one thing that it reveals is that there is strong clean energy job growth across our state. The 2023 Clean Energy Industry Report is the most recent study that we filed but we had at that point 171,000 clean energy jobs across the state, gaining jobs, almost 6,000 jobs between 2021 and 2022.

But it also reveals a couple of things that I think are quite important for others to realize. First, obviously Covid did set us back. We had job loss across our state, including in the clean energy industry but where we sit today, we see clean energy businesses adding workers at a faster rate than the overall workforce of the state and in greater numbers than in neighboring states, so I think that's very important.

The second point though is where are those jobs occurring? And I think, you know, this is a topic that we all in the clean energy transition need to better internalize, which is that building decarbonization and energy efficiency is actually the majority of the jobs that we see across our state.

We see growing opportunities in renewable generation, renewable fuels, clean transportation, grid modernization and energy storage among others but buildings are the driver of that job growth and something just to keep in mind. But the other thing, you know, I started by talking about the topic of diversity in energy writ large. You know, it also does look at the ways in which the clean energy workforce is advancing from the perspective of a diverse set of New Yorkers working in this industry.

And it is the case that we have work to do in that respect. We really don't see a clean energy industry that is reflective of the diversity across our state. So this information, this very objective information allows us to better build programs to bring forward New Yorkers who might not see themselves in this industry, to give them the tools and resources necessary to enter and be successful in this industry and ultimately to begin to move the needle because you can't change what you don't measure and that's what this report is intended to do is to provide us the objective information necessary to adjust as needed.

DITLEV ENGEL

So you are seeing that this energy transformation is actually also a way to really get much more job creation and better paying jobs in the state?

DOREEN HARRIS

It's required. It's a full stop. It has to happen because when we think about the transition that is underway, we won't be successful if it is only about climate. It has to be about benefits. So when we look at the benefits versus the costs, we see a very strong value proposition for New York to pursue this transition writ large because in every assessment we ever make the benefits do outweigh the costs. But we've got to recognize those benefits.

And in large part, yes, those benefits do come in the form of air quality, health benefits, environmental benefits, but we cannot ignore the economic benefit side of that equation. And that's why when we look at how we get from here to there, NYSERDA alone is investing almost $200 million in workforce development and we're really focusing on investing those dollars in those underserved communities that face structural barriers to really access these jobs, but also finding ways in which we can bring forward economic development, i.e. in manufacturing and supply chain investments and in really reinvigorating our real roots in the field of manufacturing across the state as well.

DITLEV ENGEL

So you are seeing that the job creation is actually benefiting across both for the marginalized communities but also in the higher paying jobs. It's kind of a, what should I say, a lift across the whole type of workforce group that you need that is benefiting from this. Is that what I hear that you're saying?

DOREEN HARRIS

Exactly and when we look at a resource, for example, we'll just say offshore wind is an example of a resource that the US Northeast is deploying and of course, New York is advancing in a leadership position within. We recognize that when we look at our state, there's particular value proposition that New York can bring to the table that actually may be different than the value proposition that even New Jersey or Massachusetts may bring.

And that's why we have to be smart about where we're investing. New York has very strong roots, a very strong marine economy. Offshore wind, one of the major things we're doing is investing in our ports and our ports happen to be located in communities that are historically underserved. A great example is Equinor is investing in South Brooklyn Marine Terminal for operations and maintenance and staging and the point of interconnection for their Empire Wind project.

The community of South Brooklyn Marine Terminal is Sunset Park. Sunset Park is a community that recognized that they wanted to reinvigorate their working waterfront and that they wanted the community members to benefit from those investments. So, when we build our contracts with Equinor and Equinor builds their contracts to provide the labor at South Brooklyn Marine Terminal, they're working within that community to bring community members to the port to work on the projects, just as they're bringing the bankers from Manhattan or the lawyers from Albany or any one of a number of different skill sets to bear on this project.

DITLEV ENGEL

One of the things that I think is, when you look at the world today, unfortunately, for all the work that has been done, both by you and a lot of others, we are still not seeing the emissions in the world going down. And so we still have a very tough mountain to climb as a world to deliver on the Paris agreements.

I think what you've been doing in NYSERDA is very inspirational and I think one of the best things we can do is to share best practices across the world and obviously people gathering very often in New York, obviously also for the UN summits and so on.

So if you should share with our listeners about if you look at was it the fact that you started out with the climate law that kind of gave that next steps, or if people are sitting and wondering how to really get started on such a transformation that everyone has to go through, what would your best advice be to people?

DOREEN HARRIS

Well, I'd certainly say, again, having described my history and the fact that I've been working in this particular government entity for almost 15 years, our climate law is a central reason that New York has really increased its level of ambition easily by an order of magnitude, if not more. And so there's, there's a little tension at the moment.

We just filed a report with our colleagues at the Department of Public Service looking at our progress toward the most near-term goal within the climate law, which is a 70% renewable electricity goal by 2030. That report reflects the very reality we faced globally in that time, which has been, there have been very significant headwinds that we've faced in deploying renewable energy in those years. And it reflects the fact that there are very specific challenges in achieving this goal by 2030.

However, one could just stop there and say, “oh, 2030, if 70 by 30 isn't reached, it's a failure”. I could not disagree more because when I think about where we are versus where we would have been without that law, we are again, orders of magnitude ahead of where we were and if 2030 becomes 2031 or 2032 or 2033, that is far better than it would have been otherwise.

And so, I think the real challenge with climate change writ large is it can become too big and it becomes a generational issue that is difficult to take on because of the enormity of the issue and the fact that you do often feel, right, that you're not actually making an impact. But when one looks at it, I think about it a lot like raising children. You know, the days are long, but the years are short.

Ultimately, when you look at it year over year over year, we have made such extraordinary progress as a state and I believe that to be a very strong, I'd say example for others to say, look, this can happen. Don't worry about the exact end state but worry about the progress you're making along the way. That's an example I think that is relevant globally because the progress we have made is extraordinary and the ways in which we are transforming our economy is really similarly impressive and something that I would say is an example for others as to how to act in a manner that's reflective of the need and consistent with obviously the imperative we all face.

DITLEV ENGEL

Unfortunately, we are coming to the end, Doreen. I'm sure we could go on for a long time. So, I have a final question for you and maybe to our younger listeners.

Now, you've had a very impressive career and you still have and you mentioned that maybe what brought you in there was your mother's sewing machine. So, what would be your best advice for young people if they really would like to have a career in this industry, male or female, to really get on it and what would that be from your side?

DOREEN HARRIS

Well, I mentioned the clean energy industry report that we issue every year. The thing about this transition is there will be a moment and this moment may even be in my career, but certainly in my children's career, where I believe there is an increasing reality that many, many, many jobs are going to become clean energy jobs.

And I say that because it is not the case that you have to be a solar installer or someone insulating someone's home to be a clean energy worker. When you think about what we are undertaking, it is a transition, as I said, it is a change that is going to impact everything. And I would say in a very good way, a very beneficial way.

But when someone is sitting there thinking about a career path they may face, they may be heading toward, I think there is a broader aperture that is now available to say “how do I become part of that transition?” And you become part of that transition if you're, you know, welding towers for offshore wind, just as you are negotiating a contract with NYSERDA. Like, that's the reality that we are seeing, is this needs to be embedded in the very fabric of our economy and we see that happening.

So when I think about advice to others, it is the case that we need to think about ourselves in the context of that transition in that very broad way, charting a career path that works for each of us, but is reflective of that very real future that we are seeing now, and we'll be seeing even more so in the future.

DITLEV ENGEL

Thank you so much for sharing that and really a big thank you for joining our podcast today, but maybe above all, thank you so much for your leadership of NYSERDA and all the things that you're doing and I wish you and all your colleagues the best of luck in further accelerating the transition in the state of New York. Thank you so much.

DOREEN HARRIS

Thanks for having me and congratulations.

DITLEV ENGEL

Thank you.

REMI ERIKSEN

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